Quote:
Joel, I understand what you are getting at about a civil society, but surely you realize that a state that tries to enforce a civil society by law is as dangerous as one that tries to enforce a free society by law, neither will be free or civil in the end.


Yes. My points were directed, at least initially and hopefully thematically, in two directions.
                                                       
Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable."

G. K. Chesterton.

One, cursing in public is an offensive act. As an offensive act it is subject to retribution. If that retribution is a fine, it is okay with me. I dont agree with jail time, though I wouldnt be surprised to learn she was offensive to the judge and that was part of the excessive punishment. I do believe that society has a right to respond to offensive people.

Two, and more importantly perhaps, I dont think that it is sound thinking to defend a person who is willfully offensive. For instance: If I were to witness one man walk up to another man and start cursing in his face, and then the other man reached out and whupped a pop-knot on his head, that would be fine with me. It doesnt matter if the first guy had a right to cuss the other guy out. You do that and your risk getting punched in the offending part. In fact, I think that is the best solution.

We live in a society that has succeeded in shaming shame. Some actions are shameful. People should be shamed for them by their peers, their neighbors, and their family. But somewhere along the way we decided that we dont want to do that anymore. We have become so lazy we cant even take care of our own serenity. Thus we erect idiotic laws, like no cursing, thinking we can pay someone to take out our garbage. Now if that is the issue being opposed, Im all for it. We need to quit assuming we can get others to deal with problems we need to take care of on our own. The consequence of failing to do that is restrictions on us all.

I fully realize that we are staring in the face of hate speech legislation that threatens us all. And one could put cursing in that category. I dont for the simple reason that hate speech is intended by political tyrants to control the exchange of ideas and cursing is a form of personal bullying.

Where does it end though? Ultimately, we are, or at least seem to be, invested in an insoluble problem. If I say, quit cursing in front of my kid. someone can insist that my opposition to hate speech legislation is hypocritical. If I say, Cursing is a legitimate form of self-expression. Then hate speech perforce, logically, must as well be. And that is the insanity of legalism, since no one can be prevented from doing anything, everyone can do nothing.

Cursing is the ugly abuse of your fellow human beings, intentionally or indifferently. If a given person lives in a society that must use the law for minor offenses then either do something to change it, move, or live with it. The problem is the society, not the law.

Aimee,

You have earned the right to lecture, reprimand, or chastise me, no worries on that. I truly expected dergats to respond differently. I made a mistake and perhaps embarrassed him. For that I apologize and am deeply regretful.

Joel.